31st July 2013
Stand well back, something nasty is about to hit the fan.

Well, it had to happen. The fan is about to be turned on and a very unpleasant mess could be getting carefully molded at Canary Wharf to hit it.
The FCA boss, Martin Wheatley says “In some cases, firms are charging a percentage of product investment, and clearly it takes away product bias in the sense that we are no longer seeing firms recommending particular products because of the payment that comes to them, but it does not take away ‘dealing bias’, because if you only get paid if people buy a product, then you are going to want them to buy a product rather than pay off debts or do something else.
There are some concerns about whether that is entirely compliant with the philosophy we have set out, and it is something we will come back to.”
There is considerable anti-Wheatley adviser anger expressed within the Internet ‘ether’ but for once, speaking as a very staunch defender of advisers, I think they may have not focused on the real metrics behind his words.
Martin Wheatley actually has a point and advisers should really take notice of them before it is too late as adviser charging of fees as percentages through the product could well manifest itself in a soon to be named miss-adviser charging crisis if Canary Wharf has it’s way.
Advisers should not be afraid of making profit or seeing great inflows of income but adviser charging by percentages of funds under management rather than time taken was always going to be sailing a little close to the regulatory wind in a fee only world. And yes, this thought may not go down too well out there, but it is a fact.
Adviser intentions from Panacea winter research carried out with GfK indicated that some 72% of advisers would levy their charges via the product, and astonishingly, a significant number would not use providers who did not allow this facility- product bias?
Results from our latest and very detailed GfK research conducted with over 400 advisers has indicated that post RDR, most advisers are charging fees to the fund. A leaning toward an initial fee of 3% of funds invested and 1% for ongoing advice per annum across a wide array of segmented servicing models seems to be their stated norm although provider feedback would suggest a lower figure is more the reality, 1-1.5% as an initial fee and .25% to .5% ongoing.
Should we be surprised that the upper percentage of initial adviser fee quoted for a lump sum investment today is very similar to single premium pre RDR basic LAUTRO commission payment, around 3% I seem to recall?
If Frank Carson was at the FCA he may say, “it’s the way I tell ‘em”.
But, let’s look at how the FCA may choose to look at this issue, advisers should take note, with the benefit of foresight on this occasion.
Based upon the GfK research, a proposed investment of £250,000 would see the advice fee set at £7,500. But what would the picture be if the FCA asked that the fee be justified based upon an hourly rate?
Of course time taken does not have any formula to accurately indicate an actual duration as every client is different, but given that the average, GfK survey confirmed hourly rate charged by advisers was £167, the ‘math’ would imply that by comparison the advice on a time basis for a £250k invested amount equated to 44.9 hours. I am not an adviser any more, but with so much technology resource available today, taking over a working week seems a lot of time to justify for one client? The FCA view may be similar?
For an investment of £100,000, the fee would be £3,000, and a time basis reflection of 17.96 hours. Yet the time taken to fact-find, research, report and execute a transaction or series of them may be less than for an investment of £250k. Or more?
The FCA will take a view that the RDR was not about professionalism by way of qualifications providing the ability to see adviser payment by a rebrand of commission. It is about reflecting professionalism by charging in the same way as other ‘professions’ (if profession creation was one of the intended RDR outcomes) and that is by charging purely on units of time.
The actual source of fee payment, either direct from the client or from the fund is not too relevant. But should it be based on time?
And should it be linked to a transaction? After all, the logical conclusion is no transaction after advice given equals no fee- as Wheatly implies, yet the time taken is almost the same, a service has been rendered and payment is due? Or is this a disguised advice cross subsidy?
So, how would advisers explain to the FCA that the following* is ‘TCF’ in a fee based, advice driven, post RDR world when charging advice to the fund?
Scenario 1: Advice charged to fund at 3% plus an ongoing 1% per annum, £7,500 (provider charges are on top):
Male 40 attained pays £200,000 as an SP pension contribution, it is grossed up to £250,000.The fund at age 65 and assuming a return of 4.9% would be £1.40m.
Scenario 2: Advice paid direct by the client on an hourly rate (provider charges are on top):
Male 40 attained pays £200,000 as an SP pension contribution, it is grossed up to £250,000.The fund at age 65 and assuming a return of 4.9% would be £1.85m
*Research data provided by a leading life office 26th July 2013, assumptions are an extreme!
So over a 25-year term, the eventual real cost to the client of initial and ongoing advice for this single premium contribution when charged to the fund would be a staggering £450,000 less of course the impact of adviser charge hourly billings.
If the client was charged on time, the hourly rate would be??????? Well you work it out on your own hourly rate
It would be interesting to see a comparison of time based charging v percentage when levied to the contract over the term of the contract.
But I believe that what Martin Wheatley is actually saying is that the FCA now thinks, unlike the FSA, that basing charging on percentages of FUM, both initial and recurring, is not right.
Where I do take issue with Mr. Wheatley is that after many years of progress toward an RDR world (where the FSA, as was, agreed with the concept and amounts involved when charging a percentage of funds under management to the contract) he is sending strong signals that this new regulator does not see it ‘appropriate’ that this previously agreed level and type of charging should continue and that we should prepare to hear that stable door slam soon despite very many adviser post RDR businesses being based on this charging methodology.
The more cynical conspiracy theorists among us may have very strong suspicions that the FCA is wanting to find yet another way to get rid of advisers by making it impossible for them to remain in business as the imposed income reducing possibilities of RDR cannot ever match the increasing and varied calls of cash from the regulator, FSCS and the FOS.
In fact the only way advisers can remain in business with such a proposed ‘chocking off’ of income flow is that there is a similar ratio reduction in regulatory fees, by that I mean those of the FCA, FOS and FSCS.
After all, consumers could see much lower advice costs if firms did not have to ensure they are treading dangerous and deep fiscal water just to see survival in the face of the huge costs that regulation forces upon them.
And where is the consumer in all this? Research findings to be released by GfK soon would suggest that there is a significant reality gap between what advisers think consumers will pay for advice and what consumers would actually pay.
Not a good RDR outcome if advice for all, but at a cost, was the intention.
Comments (15)
FCA and Wheatley's words were I believe aimed at the banks and Building Societies including Nationwide who charge a fee of 3% plus 0.5% ongoing , but ONLY if a sale proceeds.
We QUOTE 3% plus 0.5% and then go on to explain to clients the break down as 2% being research and advice (chargeable whether proceed or not) and 1% implementation. This means that only part of the charge is contingent on a sale and that aprt is for the extra work involved in the paperwork.
This also enables the client to gte us to provide product research and advice and for them to self select provider should they wish and implement themselves.
It also means research and advice can be charged on group pension scheme advice where we have not been appointed as the employer's agent.
Phil Castle 02/08/2013 08:57
Devising a new strategy whereby fees can be charged for the work done will take a lot of thinking about and a lot of understanding of the costs and risks involved within the business itself.
Anybody taking the time to really analyse their business and create a TCF and clear charging structure that the clients can see the benefits of (such as the example provided above) as well as giving the adviser the fairest return on their work, will make a killing in the marketplace by standing out from the norm and being innovative; a leader among their fraternity.
In our experience strategic planning is not something that IFAs have been used to doing and is typically outside their comfort zone. We can help ease that pain and speed up the strategy planning process as fortunately we, at CEI Compliance, have experience in facilitating strategy setting and risk assessment and implementing effective and low cost risk management programs.
We also still have the initial offer available to Panacea Advisers as the official provider of Compliance Services. I would say that this will be withdrawn in August 15th so to take advantage of the offer BOOK NOW!
Regards
Lee Werrell Chartered FCSI FISMM Cert PFS
Compliance Doctor
CEI Compliance Limited
0800 6899689
Lee Werrell 02/08/2013 08:58
Fund managers charge on a percentage basis don't they? Is that any different?
Football agents get paid a percentage, don't they?
Many businesses do this.
I am completely up front and transparent with my clients about charges and DO charge new clients 300 for a review if the result is a recommendation that is not to take up a product, or if they do not take up advice to buy a product.
As long as the client gets a return reasonably better than a deposit account I do not see why they should begrudge the adviser getting a percentage, if they agreed to it in the first place. Without the adviser they may have just stuck with a deposit account and got next to nothing so which way would they have been better off? The answer is obvious.
I think some people are in danger of being brainwashed by the FCA and some of the media. I had a client, in here, a few weeks ago, who has made over 8.5% per year from her Skandia ISA over the last ten years and she had forgotten I got paid 0.5% per year (I actually reminded her that I did). She was unhappy about that. Unbelievable! I told her maybe she should have taken advice from the butcher at the end of her road. That would have been free.
If IFAs who take an AGREED percentage are acting immorally then so are all the other occupations that use that method, including the fund managers, and so that would need to be banned as well. So why pick on the IFAs yet again. Give us a break. If we want to charge an agreed percentage we should be allowed to or else we are being denied the rights everyone else has.
Oh, and the justification for any amount you earn is precisely that it WAS agreed with the client. End of story.
Patrick Schan 02/08/2013 09:11
Jeremy Newbegin 02/08/2013 09:17
We have been watching the systematic destruction of this industry/profession by a bloated regulator whilst anyone who can do something about watches from the sidelines (bar one or 2 interested MPs).
If I charge hourly rates, I will probably lose 50% of my clients who have been very happy with the service I have given them for 20 years. I am guessing my biggest clients will be happy with a reduction in their costs too - and I and others of financial advisers will go bust with this double hit (lose smaller clients and reduced fees for richer clients).
I see myself as an investment adviser and I try to add value by helping the client make a higher percentage return than if they did it themselves (or indeed reduced negative % returns when the market is bad) - so our interests are aligned. If I made a client an extra 3% return per annum, the bigger clients make more money. Whatever client, they would make 2.5% extra for paying me 0.5%.
I can partly see the regulators view on an adviser taking an initial fee of say 3% on a very large investment but don't advisers reduce these fees on larger cases like I do?
But to ban on-going adviser charging via the product would mean we spend half our time chasing invoices rather than advising clients or paying someone to do it and increasing our client fees to do so.
It is about time that someone in government leashed their monster which is destroying the UK's most successful industry.
Dominic Browning 02/08/2013 09:26
They come to me for investment advice. Period.
Any my FSA fees, FSCS fees, FOS fees, PI cover are all based on % fees too.
So what exactly is the problem with ongoing adviser charges based on %s??
Dominic Browning 02/08/2013 09:34
On another note. What is the position if we wholly or partially charge based on performance - I wonder what this contravenes.
Tony Lewis 02/08/2013 09:58
I've spent 41 years trying to put clients in a position where they prosper. If this includes telling them to pay off expensive loans, then I do it.
The business reality is that we have to make a reasonable profit for the time and the risks we take. If I can earn more working behind a shop counter, why should I apply my knowledge and experience to advising clients in the knowledge that some of them may take a pop at me if hindsight proves the advice to be wrong?
If the FCA wants to put us all out of business then so be it. They can join the dole queue with the rest of us, as there will be no-one to pay their ever increasing fees.
Richard Brown 02/08/2013 10:57
Tim Harvey 02/08/2013 11:16
As we all know risks of writing business increase if things go wrong with the size of the investment, and our PI fees are partly based on turnover.
While admin fees may be similar, risks of investing large sums are certainly not the same as investing a share ISA. Regulation does not operate on a one size fits all basis - why should the industry ?
Frank Dennis 02/08/2013 11:33
I think that many who have commented here, in other groups too as well as our site, have actually missed the point. Lee and Jeremy certainly have not.
I see that the FCA will look closely at adviser fee charging, in particular in relation to how much time it actually takes and they will doubtless draw the conclusion that in many cases charging percentages of funds under management when compared to time taken will expose, in some cases, that advisers will have received, not earned, a lot of money for doing very little. And in some cases the reverse.
It is the former that the FCA will come back to beat you with as the consumer is now king.
Time charging is the way to avoid that beating.
Derek Bradley 05/08/2013 09:13
I am convinced that what clients realy want is to know that someone is taking an active interest in their financial future. This means that as well as good intial planning and ongoing advice comunication is the key.
Having lived with all of the regulators from the days of LAUTRO to the FCA, and changed my business model it seems every two years to keep whichever one is in place at the time, I am starting to side with the paranoid section of our industry.
david stewart 22/08/2013 10:14
Get a 100k investment wrong and the adviser writes a 100k cheque. Get 500k wrong and the bill is commensurately higher. Ah but the excess is the same in both cased I hear you say. Yeah but the premiums that follow are not! The bigger your PI claim the higher your future premiums. Percentage based charging is fair and logical - hourly rates only work when there is no liability or the rate reflects the materiality of that liability.
Simon Webster 30/12/2013 09:31
"Nay, but I choose my physician and my clergyman, thus indicating my sense of the quality of their work. By all means, also, choose your bricklayer; that is the proper reward of the good workman, to be "chosen." The natural and right system respecting all labour is, that it should be paid at a fixed rate, but the good workman employed, and the bad workman unemployed. The false, unnatural, and destructive system is when the bad workman is allowed to offer his work at half-price, and either take the place of the good, or force him by his competition to work for an inadequate sum." JOHN RUSKIN
AND
"There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey."
"It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you
bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.
Grosvenor 30/12/2013 12:42
1 if my clients are content with my company charging a %age, declared up front, who is the FCA to argue? The FCA often says it is not a pricing regulator;
2 a % renewal encourages me to make sure the client does well: why shouldn't I share in this increase in prosperity?
3 other professions charge on complexity and risk to them, as well as by the hour, Architects charge a %age, so do Stockbrokers, so the argument about other professions and fees is somewhat holed;
4 if I advise on a 1/2 million portfolio, my p.i. is more at risk than if I advise on a 50k portfolio:
5 like it or not, we are not seen by the public as a profession and it will be at least a generation before this is so: what if there are then no advisers (all priced out of earning a living?
6 as a profession, we've always worked on the basis that our wealthier clients subsidise the poorer clients: thus poorer clients (who probably need advice more!) could have the benefit of that advice: now many firms are refusing to take poorer clients: a good customer outcome? Of course not!
7 by the time we've acquired CPD, mugged up on the latest software, attended courses on God knows what and kept up on items which we are never going to recommend, there are few enough hours left to prospect and then advise: the hourly rate has to reflect this.
Telling a prospect that you need to charge at least 250 an hour because of regulation will very likely have the result that he/she does not obtain advice and be the poorer for it. So much for protecting the customer!
Charging a %age works. It ain't broke, so don't try and fix it.
Richard Brown 30/12/2013 15:13
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